Time running out

topic posted Thu, January 3, 2008 - 7:34 AM by  offlineCurry
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
breakingnews.ie/world/mheykfkfeyau/

Bizarre theory suggests time may be running out
18/12/2007 - 18:04:32


Time may literally be running out – and could one day vanish altogether, according to a bizarre new theory.

The suggestion has been put forward to explain a cosmological mystery that has baffled scientists.

A decade ago, measurements of the light from distant exploding stars showed the universe to be expanding at an accelerating rate.

Physicists assumed that a kind of anti-gravitational force must be driving the galaxies apart, and gave it the name “dark energy”.

However, to this day no-one has been able to say what dark energy is or where it comes from.

The new theory from Professor Jose Senovilla, at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, offers a radical alternative idea.

He believes there is no such thing as dark energy. Instead, he says we have been fooled into thinking the expansion of the universe is accelerating because time itself is slowing down.

At our local everyday level, the change would be imperceptible.

But it would be obvious from cosmic scale measurements tracking the course of the universe over billions of years.


Astronomers work out the speed of the universe’s expansion from the frequency of light emitted by certain types of supernovae, or exploding stars.

However, these measurements depend on our current perception of time, says Prof Senovilla.

If time has been slowing down, and clocks are now running more slowly than they did long ago, it would appear from our perspective as if things have been speeding up. Looking back over billions of years, galaxies would seem to be travelling away from each other faster and faster at various intervals since the Big Bang.

“Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating,” said Senovilla.

His idea is based on string theory concepts which allow dimensions of space and time to switch from one to another.

If our single time dimension was changing into a new space dimension, it would produce just such an effect.

After billions of years, time would eventually disappear altogether.

“Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever,” Prof Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. “Our planet will be long gone by then.”

Prof Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, is drawn to the idea.

“We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear – that’s just the reverse effect,” he said.



posted by:
Curry
SF Bay Area
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Well, professor Senovilla has good immagination but a little too good. Just like Einstein said, "Make everything simple, but not too simple."
    Professor Senovilla is making one but crucial mistake, he speaks of the same phenomenon from two points of view that are situated in the same frame of reference - Universe and Earth.
    According to him, if I correctly understood his point (I must say this in order to be polite), we were/are observing the Universe expanding and accelerating in doing it, but the time we ourselves are in is slowing down. I really want to put a couple of hundreds of exclamation signs after "is slowing down" here.
    After the Big Bang, Earth, well the matter that would ultimately become stars, that would ultimately create the heavier elements that would ultimately form Earth, blah-blah-blah, yada-yada.... so, all that was inherently INCLUDED figuratively speaking "INSIDE!" this very same Universe that it is an inseparable part of and otherwise. So, what he is missing in his idea is that if the Universe is expanding and accelerating at it, then our little blue planet, as well as the rest of our neighbourhood, as well as our parent star the Sun, as well as our Orion Spur of our Milky Way Galaxy, as well as the very same Milky Way Galaxy itself, as well as our local claster of Galaxies along with THE REST OF THE Universe is Accelerating As Well. What good professor did is he created such a "bubble" that includes one planet out of the viciously-insane incomprehensible amount of them in the who-o-o-ole Universe, and "made" Time to "be slowing down" while the rest of that Universe is still accelerating (or whatever it is doing in its free time). Basically, he took a chunk of this same Universe, "tore" it out of it and "took it outside" the Universe itself (!), and now, he is sitting and observing the rest of it accelerating.
    There many words I have about this... well... idea, but I do respect you and your academic achievement Professor Senovilla.
    Again, assuming I understood the whole hypothesis correctly (which I might very, very, very much not, due to being just a punk-ass, ignorant undergrad who just barely made it to the Junior year), all the above should... no... must have been caught up by the eyes/knowledge (the extent of it) of someone of this magnitude of expertise.
    ...

    "Plato is my friend, but the Truth is more important"

    I saw this article (about this idea) 3-4 weeks ago in the New Scientist magazine, and wanted to post it in my tribe, but I desided not to. I wonder how you pulled it out from a "breaking news" newspaper, Curry, very interesting. One wouldn't expect such to include this type of stories in it.
    • Serge,

      You believe in blackholes, right?

      From the point of view of the guy falling into one, the rest of the universe is speeding up... Get where I'm going with this?
      • Yep.
        But we do not know what exactly is going on inside them and how, if at all (it probably does, though), time changes in there, in other words, nobody went in to check this or that out yet that we know of. I totally agree with you Troy that in such extremes as black holes this -might- be a case, however, he is talking about OUR plane AND frame of reference.
        • I see that you don't fully get what I was leading to...

          First, from the perspective of of a person falling through the event horizon of a black whole they will NOT notice a difference (please review Fermi-Walker coordinates). The event horizon of a black hole is what is known as a regular singularity - something that can be removed by changing coordinate systems.

          Second, the good Professor is proposing that the universe is finite. Imagine that the universe is an expanding balloon inside of a pipe. Sooner or later the balloon will hit the pipe but not all of the balloon will make contact at the same "time." Since the parts of the balloon touching the pipe are no longer expanding, signals form the other areas of the balloon will make it appear that those areas are expanding faster.

          Another possibility is that we are in a closed universe, headed to the big crunch, which isn't all that different then falling into a black hole.
          • If we use the analogy of a pipe, for example, this will not work, because the balloon/Universe is not fixed inside this pipe on some "nail" or "rod", so isn't the Universe even if we assume for a moment it is finite; thus, the inner "pressure" would move the center "axis", if I may say so, of the sphere/balloon/Universe at the same rate as it is expanding, which would, ultimately, make it co-inside with the "axis" of the center of the bowl, but it would Never make it "stick" to the sides of it (the pipe bowl) on one side and stop its expansion while the rest of it does. From the point of view of you and yours truly inside of this hypothetical sphere, things would go by their regular "business" without any signs of the outer welter.
            When you are inside say, a spinning golf ball, how can you know that you are even spinning unless told or peeked outside? Now, imagine you where born inside a constantly spinning spherical chamber a mile in diameter and have lived in it all your life until now never having been able to even peek outside. Now you are opening the door and see the world (seemingly to you) going nuts in front of your eyes. (You have no idea that the sphere travelled around the world for different scientific research purposes practically all the time since the day of your birth) What would you think? (The last is a rhetorical question)
            • Start with the balloon centered in the pipe this time, then blow it up. The part of the balloon the is transverse to the axis of the pipe will touch the pipe before the rest of the balloon will and that part will stop expanding while the rest continues until touching the pipe. Also, instead of the universe being contained by the balloon, the universe is the balloon (yes I mean the two dimensional sheet of rubber). It might help if you draw several dots on the balloon, it might help you visualize what I'm talking about.
              • A sphere/balloon would fill the "cavity" uniformly, such that every single point of it would touch the walls of the trough at the same time, therefore, All the ("edge") points of the sphere/balloon/Universe would "stop"/"touch it" at the same time. Plus to that, you forget that a pipe is an analogy that we used arbitrarily. It is actually incorrect to use to begin with. With this analogy we wanted to translate/communicate the assumed for the argument purposes "finality" of the Universe, as if “saying” that it is finite (again, exclusively for the argument purposes).

                Thus, if we pretend/assume that it is finite then it, itself, must be contained within something else, right? If we assume the Universe to have a spherical (3D) symmetry then we would normally assume that that other something it is contained within is symmetrical as well. Whether it is cylindrical/triangular, or any other rectangular type of symmetry (say, square), we don’t know. However, a pipe is not symmetrical; for, the top of the bowl is simply missing, which implies infinity, because potentially, even if the lower part would stop, the upper can go expanding, AND accelerating at it, for ever, I-n-f-i-n-i-t-y. The latter, in its turn, in itself is the proof, and implication, that the Universe, potentially, IS infinite (of course… it can go up forever and ever and ever).

                So, we have a finite Universe in an infinite "something", better yet – “half” (not semi) infinite something. But we know, that infinity divided by a number IS infinity, you can do it 'till you're blue in the face it will still be Infinity. Thus, no matter what you stick the Universe into, be it a cylinder, or a cube, or another sphere, or whatever - that other will have to be either infinite, which would immediately make the Universe infinite by default, or, in case of that Something finite it, the Something, itself being finite, implies that there must be something it, Itself, is contained within, which will again bring us back to where we started. In that case, what we think is the Universe is not the Universe at all but some well defined space - the latter definition/statement depriving it of the status of being the Universe (by now it is no better than say, the local group or a cluster of galaxies, even though very… very… very, very large, but still… finite.

                This denies the very existence of the subject in question which cannot be true for the Universe is an actual physical phenomenon that is clearly seen, interactive, and measurable. If we stick the Universe into an "unfinished" (<= don't want to use scientific terms, so that anyone can understand us), “Something” (like the pipe, for example, or a glass, or an open salt-shaker, whatever) that, being infinite, on one side will immediately make/convert the rest of the universe (as we had said – by default) into infinite, and remembering that for every action there is a re-action, as soon as the "bottom” of this, by now (oh, jeebus) "finite-infinite" Universe, touches the walls, these very walls will start pushing right back at the Universe, which will begin building up an internal pressure, that would increase the inner temperature, that would increase the entropy, that would be immediately seen AND detectable/readily-verifiable by the instruments of ANY more or less advanced civilization, such as ours as well as visually noticeable at night in the skies AND , at some point after a while, also during the day as a permanent phenomenon in the sky, like the Moon, for example. In other words, things would really start getting nuts all around the place and we would be able to see that in our life times (since the good Professor presents his argument as a phenomenon taking place right now).

                On top of that, as soon as the pressure would start building inside the "other half" that is not confined by the limits of the pipe-bowl, that part would immediately give in and begin expanding into the infinite(!) direction of the opening of the pipe-bowl (though we know that the Universe does NOT expand INTO ANYthing). The latter, thus, would eventually become too "cramped" for the expanding, (still Infinite(!) ), Universe and would ultimately pop out like a pop-corn from a casserole, thus "releasing" itself into the Infinite(!) of the unobstructed.... well... Nothing, leaving the sphere of the Universe wobble in the “air” like a soap-bubble when you jerk your hand with the ring aside, to release it to fly. Here, again, the argument hits the wall – since the bubble/Universe does contain mater AND a “physical” “membrane”/”border” that holds all the stuff inside of it, the wobbling of the “walls” of the bubble/sphere would, again, create pressure on the matter inside the bubble, which would, again result in increased chaos… and so on and so forth..

                ( this, by the way, gets us to the question that is being debated right now all around the world, including our little humble corner of it, here on tribe - what is this Nothing, and what is it "made" of?)


                The extent of Chaos in the case of an “enclosed” “Universe” caused by the increased entropy due to the walls, or any otherwise, pressure would be, with time, unimaginable, and long before we would be able to see its… well… unimaginability, the life in the Universe, at least as we know it, would seize to exist for any practical purposes (in this plane, anyway).

                However, none of this is taking place right now, none what I am personally aware of at least, being a humble (AND modest, did I mention modest? ::)) ) undergrad.

                Clearly, in this direction there is a paradox, therefore, we might attempt to try to think to drop this “exit“ as a plausibility.
                • You seem to forget is that, from the observers point of view the observer is the only one in the present, everyone else is in the past. So if we just reached the limit and look at a a galaxy 1billion lyrs away, then from our perspective that galaxy has another billion years to go before it reaches the limit - this is a relativity thing.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Totally,
                    But the "changes" would affect every "corner" of the Bubble/Universe, not only the distant objects, this would make them being visible, and not only visible, to the imaginary observer at any point of prospective including the immediate, as well as "not entirely" immediate, vicinity.
                    • Re:Time

                      01/04
                      It would seem that, since we have a record of the past all the way to the background radiation from the big bang, we should be able to measure other effects if time was in fact slowing down. What I mean is that we should be able to see additional differences from any change in the rate of time. There should be supporting evidence if the time slowing down theory was true. I know of no supporting evidence. Anyone else?
                      • Re:Time

                        01/04
                        No, but then again I don't think anyone has looked before either.
                        • Re:Time

                          01/04
                          Yeah, that's true, nobody actually did.
                          They have a whole bunch of new instruments lined up for launch in the next couple'a years and beyond. We will definitely get some new insights into many old theories, without a doubt. Some of them might even turn some ideas we have right now all the way up side down, figuratively speaking.
                          I'm looking forward for the new, exciting, stuff to start coming in.
  • Thanks, Jon.
    It makes quite a lot of sense to me, and I can see where I could apply this to my hypothesis here and use it instead of guessing work. I got the main concept idea. Some topics are a little vague, but that is simply because I haven't gotten there yet, at school. But, all in all, it was very educative and thought provoking. Thank You. I'll come back to it in the future, when I am more ready and prepaired.

Recent topics in "Cosmology"

Topic Author Replies Last Post
Cosmological Model offlineCurry 0 November 6, 2009
My cosmos died William 1 September 29, 2009
WMAP top 10 offlineCurry 1 August 12, 2009
Cosmic Distance offlineCurry 0 June 9, 2009